Trade Service Makes the Cover

TSC seems to have their act together and in all reality do more for synchronizing data along the supply chain than any other company in our market. Has anyone given thought to the fact that TSC’s data is the data powering the success of the IDX from IDEA?

Nice article! Trade Services has sure come a long way over the years. Then again, they’ve been at for something like 100 years (we’ve been with them for the last 19 years). We continue to be very happy with their service and look forward to more good things coming from the company.

Interesting article. TS is far bigger and better positioned than I ever thought. Shame on the company for not marketing themselves better.

Good company. Good product. Good people.

Finally the good news has been allowed to surface.
TSC from our view point has helped us clean our files, which let us do some business through IDX with some of our larger vendors.
I am glad to see this well written story.
Go for it Trade.

WOW…IDEA spends 10 years trying to do what Trade has been doing for a 100 years. Along the way Trade propped up IDEA and ran their data through the IDEA VAN.
All IDEA has to show for it’self is a VAN that is really not that much of a savings!
IDEA is pretty good at advertising in magazines….they don’t say anything that’s of value. So am I missing something? Is part of my VAN charge going for their ads?
Now NAED is out there touting IDEA and NAED at discounted rates?
Something is wrong with this picture.

Go for it Trade.

The Trade data we use works with our manufacturers. We know that because they acknowledge our orders and ship product to us.

I am a bit leary of associations that don’t focus on revenue generation…i.e. IDEA/NAED.
There are nice people at both places.
This is about our business and most associations are about themselves.

Read the information below from NAED’s mouthpiece Salimando. What strikes me as odd, is that Trade Services HAS attributed data that our company has been using very successfully for years. Why is Joe not writing about that? Joe is not an impartial writer……!

The Phil & Ron Show

By Joe Salimando

Phil Barrios, of Hubbell Inc., is a marketing guy who ended up as “corporate director, e-business.” Ron Schlader, of Crescent Electric Supply, is vice president of operations and quality. Both seem to be down-to-earth versions of the species homo sapiens.

If you get the chance to see them together, grab it! There was one in 2005, which I missed. The Phil and Ron show was again performed Sept. 15 at the IDEA E-Biz Forum, held near Washington, D.C.

The “show” dealt with a key issue that will shape the future progress of e-biz in electrical distribution-something called “attributed data.”

Definition of a Lousy Term
There is a dream in e-biz. It’s the idea that each supplier will create one set of detailed information on a product item…and this information will be used EVERYWHERE:

In the supplier’s print and online catalogs, info sheets, brochures, advertising, etc., etc., and etc.

In every distributor’s computer (via the IDEA industry data warehouse, or IDW)

In customer computers (used for searching and ordering)

On the web (for searching, comparing, and ordering)

In net pricing arrangements and SPAs
Nice dream, eh? The e-biz folks hung a lousy name on it, “attributed data.”

Here’s the kicker: It became apparent (from listening to Phil and Ron and others) that attributed data is becoming more important AND not “getting done” at a rate that would spur optimism.

How Much Information?
What in tarnation is an ATTRIBUTE, anyway? In e-biz, it’s a piece of data that describes a product item. Manufacturers might attach many attributes to each product, including:

Electrical information (amperage, for example-“20” might be the attribute value)

Physical size

How many in a box?

How big is the box?

Bar code

Color

One or more photographs (KB-size for the web; MB-size maybe, for print media)

One might include schematics (maybe a 3-D view?)

A short product description (enabling the person who’s worked at your counter for four months to find the thing via computer search)

Slang for the item (what’s a “high hat,” for example?)

A longer product description.

Yes, PRICE-this sure is an attribute!

And much more
OK. That leads to a logical question-how many goshdarn attributes do we need?

One answer came from Steve Biezczat of Activant: Maybe 20.

From Phil Barrios: Perhaps 50-or more. He qualified that by saying “Hubbell built its attributes to allow a search through its products that ultimately gets you to the one product that meets your needs.”

I also heard (directly) from a person sitting next to me. This person’s company, which makes electrical stuff, has experimented with attributes-and thinks it might need (are you sitting down?)…188.

Value Of Adding Attributes
From Ron: “Self-service lowers our cost structure. The XYZ generation [the Millennials, I think he meant]-85% of the time, when they need to find something, they go to the Internet.”

Obviously, if every electrical product had oodles of attributed data attached, online catalogs (on manufacturer or distributor sites) would be searchable by XYZs, using tools familiar to them-Yahoo, Google, and so forth.

Ron (and others) noted that it’s going to be tough to transplant the information in the head of a 30-year veteran counter person (now retiring) into the head of the 25-year-old you hired to take his place.

[I believe the only solution is The Vulcan Mind-Meld!]

Our industry’s problem is that we haven’t gotten attributed data together. Few manufacturers have fully populated the IDW. Why?

The industry doesn’t yet have a comprehensive standard format for attributed data. IDEA IS working on it, using UNSPSC codes (which provide a high-level product categorization of products in the electrical channel). But there are only about 50 people from 30 companies working on this committee- they could use your help.

Manufacturers can’t agree among themselves on a standard (which is why UNSPSC codes are perfect-they came from somewhere else, are global in application, and are being adapted to our industry).

Manufacturers are afraid that their products will become commodities once all of this attributed data exists on a distributor’s computer. Todd Kumm, CEO of Dakota Supply Group (and immediate past IDEA chair) claimed in a session that exactly the opposite would happen with ubiquitous attributed data! Kumm’s notion: The more information one has on a given product, the less the likelihood that it can be treated as a commodity.

Manufacturers have balked at investment needed to get this done. This would include especially smaller manufacturers, who have just as big a job to do on their product lines (with fewer resources).

There are (no doubt) other reasons this has been held up. They are fine excuses, but, essentially, all of the reasons that we don’t NOW have attributed data…stink to high heaven. We’re being held back by this.

We can’t be.

The Promised Land
At one time (before the detailed blocking-and-tackling required by attributed data became evident), it seemed that a distributor would be able to produce a “custom” catalog (online, in print, or both) of all products it carried.

This would be as simple as:

a. Downloading the latest data on products

b. Selecting (prior to downloading or after) just the product lines/products the distributor wanted to present

c. Assembling an e-Catalog with the push of a button

No, this isn’t here yet. At this point, I’m hoping it happens before I am cremated.

Phil summarized my feelings on attributed data: “We need a standard for attributed data…this is important stuff. This is how products will be presented to the market!”

Ignorance Is Bliss?
Phil: “The next generation of customers may not take the time to learn products as well as this generation.”

I didn’t speak up (the meeting was about e-biz!), but I have heard this in electrical contracting circles-in a different way. Basically, it backs up what Phil said. What I’ve heard includes:

Today’s electrician (union or non-union) is not as well-versed as the 45-year-old journeyman working in 1977.

Instructors of today’s apprentices-again, union or non-union-are, as a result, said to be not as great as the guys who taught 30 years ago. Essentially, this is a repeat of the first bullet…it was the 45-year-old working at night as an instructor who did the teaching.

There’s too much to learn these days (think “information overload”). And contractors are impatient, which means there’s not enough time being given to learn it-either in classroom or the field.

In the near future, folks will come to your counter to buy something. They might not be able to describe it concisely. They probably won’t have a catalog number. They might or might not be able to draw the thing.

Ron described how some folks coming to Crescent’s counters-the older fellows-know the products so well, and have worked with Crescent for such a long time, that they have a simple solution when they run into a younger counter person. “They say, ’let me show you where it is,’ and they walk with our counter guy back to our warehouse and take him to where the item they want is.”

Talk about nonverbal communication!

Having photos of every product you carry on computers on your counter is going to help, probably. Having short verbal descriptions AND long verbiage might help, too.

Science Friction
OK, I admit-I enjoyed the Phil and Ron show. There is nothing more enjoyable than listening to speakers who have deep knowledge about their topic, who are heavily engaged in what they are talking about…and who are, to boot, easy to like.

But, afterward, the session (added together with everything else I heard in covering pieces of the E-Biz Forum) troubled me.

I remembered reading (years ago) a science fiction short story. In a future society, know-how had disappeared. Society came apart when the machines stopped working; when something went wrong, almost no one knew how to fix or replicate it.

Is this the future that Ron and Phil (and others) were painting? Is electrical expertise, on many levels, in the process of disappearing?

Think about what I heard and claim to know:

Counter persons with little or no knowledge

Folks that will need a computer search to “know” the electrical industry

Electricians with a lower level of knowledge compared with their forerunners

A generation of journeymen who might be nearly helpless if they can’t use Google (or some search engine) to find products.

Bottom line: The reason our industry needs to make MAJOR progress-in a hurry-on attributed data is not as much about “e-business”…as it is about…business!

Joe Salimando has for years been baiting us with pro-labor union articles and slanted views that do not reflect favorable on revenue generation for electrical distributors.

Thanks to who ever posted the above about Ole Joe. We need to be slapped every now and then to remember how slanted Joe is!
Of course he is entitled to his view point. I just don’t like to pay money to NAED and have his slanted stuff out there. Knowing how the current NAED President is, he’ll cover for Joe.

Anyway, revenue generation is a big deal for us. Trade supplies us with attributed data for our website and business system. For us it works.

While Joe may be a nice guy, perhaps it’s time for TED/NAED to show a different perspective and offer a broader perspective. His writing is fun and interesting, but very opinionated aand don’t show an understnading of the issues.

Tom, we know he’s your buddy, but aren’t there other educated writers out there?

I for one, am sick and tired of hearing about the IDW and how it’s “the” solution from a select few proponents that are too close to it to look at it objectively. Does NAED think we’re a bunch of idiots? Our company tried to support the industry by subscribing to IDEA (IDX and IDW). Thankfully, we kept our service with Trade Services going at the same time. For me and my company, the IDW is absolutely useless. We only occasionally use it to get mid-week pricing from one line and we will be cancelling it all together next year. When is the industry going to finally wake up and acknowledge that the IDW simply doesn’t work. We happily use IDX, but their data is horse shit. We’ve used Trade Services data for many years and we’re quite happy with it. I suggest NAED and NEMA save their money trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist and focus on real problems that do. RML

TED magazine is out of touch with the distributor business realities.
For sometime the focus of NAED and TED magazine has been focused a message that will benefit the large distributor.
Some of the articles in TED are sheer commedy because they don’t reflect the real world. Poor Joe just doesn’t get it.
You people have shouted IDEA so much and the results are so poor…we’ve turned the volumne off.

TDM

Tom Naber gets promoted, are you kidding me? What in the world was Dick thinking?

On behalf of the board of directors, I am pleased to announce the promotion of Tom Naber to president and chief executive officer of NAED, a move that reflects his proven leadership and outstanding performance in managing the association,” said Dick Waterman, senior advisor of International Electric Supply Corporation (IESC) in Dallas, Texas and NAED chairman of the board. “We look forward to the many new contributions that he will make to the association and the industry in the years ahead.”

In case the person posting above doesn’t understand, Dick Waterman is not an employee of IESC in the true sense.He is a paid consultant serving out his term as NAED Chair person…..
This thing with Tom either has to be the Peter principal at work or maybe it is a way to eventually usher him out the door.

TMS @ MES

Trade Service knows data…all different types of data. We just didn’t know they are as big as they are. Their new product that they are working on, will fill a need we have had for a long time.

Joe S is always good for a laugh, because most of the time he has no clue what he is writing about. Tom is his buddy and will cover for him.
Trade should put all their massive databases on line including a good cross reference.
JJK

Trade has commodity codes and recommended resale pricing that certain distributors must have. Can’t get these from IDW and many of us need it for pricing. I also like the attributed data for my website storefront. I can’t get that from IDW either.

IDX2 is a good idea, saves us money. IDW would save a lot more money because it has the capability to sync the whole industry, if the whole industry ever decides to get on it.

They distributor side can’t run their individualized pricing models because the database is missing critical data.

For now…. I need to hedge and subscribe to both… Some companies have stated they won’t send their data directly to Trade Service so I’m hedging.

Tom Naber named CEO in addition to President? So what. Amounts to nothing more than an affirmation of his current position. Apparently NAED thought that was needed facing into some troubled economic waters ahead and in light of recent controversies contributed to by Tom himself.You can’t bust up your leadership heading into the war. WHo would run things. Seems to me others in this blog pointed out it had been difficult to get a candidate for this job anyway.

I suggest any of you Tom-bashers give up. It doesn’t do any good. Look what happens. Leave him alone. Drop the Tom-bashing. It doesn’t do any good. Use your energy positively and elsewhere.

Good idea for Trade Service to go online…. if I interpret the above post correctly… they should push to be a competitive synchronizing database to IDEA…. they have more of the pricing-critical data and they have hundreds of customers – over 500 I think. Competition may wake up some people to get to the finish line first.

As the post above suggest, I won’t say that Tom Naber has brought all this BS on himself. I also will not mention that he continues to hire Joe S. to write about sugjects that he has no understanding about.
If the NAED board was foolish enough to reward Tom with a raise, then they have cemented in my mind what a group fools will do.

My take is that Trade has been the back bone for IDW for 19 years, while the IDEA personnel fooled around. Some people should understand that Trades data is the standard….it has been running through IDX for years.
IDEA acts as if it is something special and it is…they have added an enormous cost into the channel. The UN numberis a hoax for mainline distributors to spend money on….unless you do business with Volvo or some manufacturer.
The VAN cost started out to be low cost….now it is high cost.
RG- Virginia-NC